[arm1tage]

A'la the Ion Redline/Cobalt SS? If so, how much $ and power can be expected?
http://www.cobaltss.net/forums/showthread.php?t=7412

My guess is Stage 1 with downpipe/exhaust will put out about 280hp easily. Priced around $1000.

Stage 2 with injectors and ECU remap might be as high as 320hp, although GM might start cannabilizing Corvette sales at that point, so maybe it won't happen. If they did, I'd guess pricing to be around $1500 (including Stage 1).

BTW, this is a semi-continuation of an earlier discussion..
http://www.skyroadster.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1875

 

[Jordan]

I assume you are starting out with a Redline to begin with... I think adding 20hp from a downpipe/exhaust may be a little presumptuous... But what do I know?

 

[tvieira24]

I assume you are starting out with a Redline to begin with... I think adding 20hp from a downpipe/exhaust may be a little presumptuous... But what do I know?

The only way to get a bump that high in exhaust upgrades is if you go from the stock 2.5" to a 3" system from the turbo back. I'm willing to bet the o2 housing is very restrictive as well, that should be able to be replaced too.

I honestly don't think GM will release staged upgrades for the Sky RL, but I wouldn't doubt that they would release staged upgrades for the GXP. Saturn is targetting different demographics with the Sky, mostly older folks that have no interest in modifying thier car.

I hope I'm wrong though

 

[nighttripper]

Me too:lol: :lol: one of the older folk.

 

[brentil]

Actually headers and exhaust on the Solstice add about 15HP to the wheels so close to 20HP at the flywheel. Being a turbocharged system going to a better exhaust and downpipe could easily add 20HP to the Redline cars. Also you would not have to move to 3" piping to get that benefit. Solstices are getting the 10HP wheel gain just by replacing the stock 2.5" with a better designed 2.5" and muffler.

However I don't think that would be GM's Stage 1 if they make one. Look to the SRT-4 for better ideas. Stage 1 would more then likely be the injectors and the ECU reflash since it's a very small package and an easy upgrade that they could charge good money for. They're easier and cheaper to produce and can be stock much more easily then the other items.

 

[brentil]

I honestly don't think GM will release staged upgrades for the Sky RL, but I wouldn't doubt that they would release staged upgrades for the GXP. Saturn is targetting different demographics with the Sky, mostly older folks that have no interest in modifying thier car.

If this is the engine that evntually replaces the LSJ then I could very easily see Stage upgrades for it since that means cars that have the ability to use it could be upgraded. Especially if it is a simple injector+ECU retune it would apply to all cars using it. (Cobalt SS, ION RL, HHR, Solstice, Sky, G6, VUE)

Also any part that fits the Solstice GXP would fit the Sky. Look at all the accesories beign sold for the Sky now, those are all Solstice parts.

 

[Mallard]

Well it looks like I may have to eat my words. After saying a few times on this board that the Club Racer Solstice at the SEMA show was not the GXP engine, due to the incorrect intake manifold being on the car, i may be incorrect. This month's hot rod says:

The engine is the same 2.0L turbo-four from the Solstice GXP, but a proted head, a different intake, and a Stage II kit from GM puts the power in this one to a healthy 325 hp, up from the base 265hp engine.

I'm wondering if 'intake' includes intake manifold. Too bad GM has covered the entire top of the engine, obscuring any hopes of seeing the cam driven fuel pump. If Hot Rod is correct in identifying the engine, then expect stage upgrades.

 

[Rik]

I don't think the staged kits will include injectors. Because this car has a mechanical fuel pump the fuel pressure goes up as r.p.m. increases thus negating much of the need for larger injecters. Plus direct injection injecters are ungodly expensive. I expect to see an e.c.m. reflash that raises the redline (pun intended) to about 7000. The 2.0 could easily turn 7500 and still not have the piston speed of the 2.4 engine. The higher r.p.m. along with some bolt on mods to allow the engine to breathe better should make for a noticable improvment. Now I know I could be completely wrong about this, so I welcome anyone truly in "the know" to staighten me out.

 

[tvieira24]

If this is the engine that evntually replaces the LSJ then I could very easily see Stage upgrades for it since that means cars that have the ability to use it could be upgraded. Especially if it is a simple injector+ECU retune it would apply to all cars using it. (Cobalt SS, ION RL, HHR, Solstice, Sky, G6, VUE)

Also any part that fits the Solstice GXP would fit the Sky. Look at all the accesories beign sold for the Sky now, those are all Solstice parts.

I've noticed the catback on the sky will be different than the solstice (just the tips) but of course everything mechanically will be mostly the same.

I'm not saying that I don't think GM won't release staged packages for the motor used in the GXP, I'm just saying that by looking at the demographics, the Sky isn't neccessarily geared towards the 20-35 year old people that are really into modding.

 

[tvieira24]

I don't think the staged kits will include injectors. Because this car has a mechanical fuel pump the fuel pressure goes up as r.p.m. increases thus negating much of the need for larger injecters. Plus direct injection injecters are ungodly expensive. I expect to see an e.c.m. reflash that raises the redline (pun intended) to about 7000. The 2.0 could easily turn 7500 and still not have the piston speed of the 2.4 engine. The higher r.p.m. along with some bolt on mods to allow the engine to breathe better should make for a noticable improvment. Now I know I could be completely wrong about this, so I welcome anyone truly in "the know" to staighten me out.

The GXP/RL actually uses a dual pump setup, an in-tank pump as well as an engine-driven pump (to maintain that insanely high fuel pressure). You will still need to upgrade to injectors that are capable of flowing more in the future if you raise the boost (technically speaking, I haven't looked into direct injection that far yet). Normal injectors can only flow so much (CC's), and need to be upgraded as the amount of boost is raised, but I'm really not sure what the range of these direct injection injectors are. For all I know they can be fully scaleable from 500cc-750cc depending on pump pressure. It's somehting we will have to wait for (unless someone already knows). :thumbs:

 

[Rik]

The in tank pump is only a booster pump to feed the mechanical pump. These injectors are not like normal injectors that see a fixed pressure. They are designed to have a good spray pattern over a wide range of different pressures.

 

[tvieira24]

The in tank pump is only a booster pump to feed the mechanical pump. These injectors are not like normal injectors that see a fixed pressure. They are designed to have a good spray pattern over a wide range of different pressures.

Do you have any proof of this? I am not doubting you, I'm just curious as to what other engines GM makes have this same direct injection.

 

[Rik]

Keep in mind because this engine is direct injected not as much fuel has to be injected to maintain the proper air fuel mixture.

 

[Rik]

Do you have any proof of this? I am not doubting you, I'm just curious as to what other engines GM makes have this same direct injection.

It's technology that has been used on diesels for years.

 

[tvieira24]

It's technology that has been used on diesels for years.

I'm well aware of this, but diesels also run much cooler than a common gasoline injected engine which would lead me to believe that the injectors can't be straight off a diesel motor.

 

[Rik]

No, I don't imagine the injecters are the exact same as the ones on the Duramax diesel, but the fuel delivery technology is very similiar.

 

[tvieira24]

No, I don't imagine the injecters are the exact same as the ones on the Duramax diesel, but the fuel delivery technology is very similiar.

I hope so, that would eliminate a big step in the tuning process as well as save a ton of money considering how expensive these injectors are. How flexible are the fuel pressure regulators on these? Do you think the engine driven pump will need modification (similar to exhanging supercharger pulleys) in order to deliver more fuel or will the stock FPR suffice?

 

[Rik]

I don't know. If there is no fuel return line to the tank there may be no need for a regulator. They could just calibrate the pump to deliver a certain amount of pressure at a given r.p.m., but now I'm talking way over my head because I'm a lot of things... and none of them is an engineer.

 

[Sky_Flyer]

WCR Engine

Well it looks like I may have to eat my words. After saying a few times on this board that the Club Racer Solstice at the SEMA show was not the GXP engine, due to the incorrect intake manifold being on the car, i may be incorrect. This month's hot rod says...

Yesterday at NYIAS I saw the WCR up close (no open engine bay though) along with the spec sheet. It has what was described as a 2.0L variable flow turbo engine in it. The rep said that it was a modified version of the GXP engine. 325 horse Sky RL, oh yeah

I will post pics tomorrow of the spec sheet and car.

 

[tvieira24]

I don't know. If there is no fuel return line to the tank there may be no need for a regulator. They could just calibrate the pump to deliver a certain amount of pressure at a given r.p.m., but now I'm talking way over my head because I'm a lot of things... and none of them is an engineer.

You have a point, but most returnless fuel systems contain a fuel pressure regulator inside the actual tank with the pump opposed to return style which usually have them afterwards. This would make sense to me, but I swear I saw a picture of a rail mounted FPR in one of these crazy pictures.

Edit: Nevermind, found a picture, apparently the FPR looking thing is a fuel pump.