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Discussion Starter #1
Lately I have noticed that when a new topic is discussed, it doesn't take too may posts before someone chirps in with a sarcastic remark, or stating the topic is dumb (I did, was remanded (MM never is)), or someone comments with disdain. Someone takes offense and the bun tossing begins.

I see solutions to cleaning up this behavior with a two pronged solution.

Firstly, the members have to patrol themselves. The OP has to first consider the relevance of his topic by first conducting a search, if you can't find what you're looking for, then ask. BTW, Google is you're friend since this site's search engine sucks! Responders have to state fact first, heresy becomes fodder for those waiting for it. If no fact, then perhaps IMHO can work. Those that respond to someone's post keep it to fact, no attack on the helper or messenger, be nice with the correction if required. This latter advise is directed to those that have been here a long time and feel the need to squish an insect. If this is the case, move along or go outside and squish one, let it go, whatever. Needless to say think before typing.

Secondly, the moderators need to take a more positive role in a thread's content. If it looks like it will become emotionally charged, lock it! I mean by taking a more positive control, the membership will be better policed. I know its not a Nazi state, but this site is really getting out of hand with arguments in new threads. One only needs to look at the past months activity and see how many threads turn into bun fights. Usually its the same people. A trend does develop. I have been on the sister Solstice site and its way more politer. Perhaps its the shape of the car, curvier means less obtuse!

Anyway, this is how I feel lately, I was not sure where to post this so opted for here in site feedback, because that's what it is. I did do a search of the site regarding this issue. One of the only things I found was a post by SKYRoadster in 2005, and it was locked!

Personal attacks are absolutely not allowed. Even if you believe another member is a troll or a jerk or whatever, do not make personal attacks.

That means no name calling, no posting pictures or links that are hostile, no hateful posts, no posting of personal information, etc. Personal attacks cannot be tolerated.

Comments need to be kept civil or they will be deleted and posting privileges will be jeopardized.

The Forum should be a fun and friendly place to hang out and not a hostile environment. Civility to fellow Forum members is always appropriate.
Cheers :)
 

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Lately I have noticed that when a new topic is discussed, it doesn't take too may posts before someone chirps in with a sarcastic remark, or stating the topic is dumb (I did, was remanded (MM never is)), or someone comments with disdain. Someone takes offense and the bun tossing begins.
I'd need to see the post specifically but I believe it was your second "This thread is stupid" post in the thread. This rule applies to everyone and it basically is that you are allowed to state your opinion that the thread in question is stupid. However, once you have stated your opinion as such, it doesn't need to be repeated. If it is, the repeated "this is stupid" post, or posts, will be deleted.

As of the last two months, find me a thread where MM has been allowed to say "this thread is stupid" or something like it more than once in a thread. You may feel that MM never gets called out on it but I would counter that in the last two months he HAS been called out on it...and I have enforced it. With a couple of exceptions, he has abided by it and I appreciate that.

I see solutions to cleaning up this behavior with a two pronged solution.

Firstly, the members have to patrol themselves. The OP has to first consider the relevance of his topic by first conducting a search, if you can't find what you're looking for, then ask. BTW, Google is you're friend since this site's search engine sucks! Responders have to state fact first, heresy becomes fodder for those waiting for it. If no fact, then perhaps IMHO can work. Those that respond to someone's post keep it to fact, no attack on the helper or messenger, be nice with the correction if required. This latter advise is directed to those that have been here a long time and feel the need to squish an insect. If this is the case, move along or go outside and squish one, let it go, whatever. Needless to say think before typing.
Agreed. I would like to add that after you search, if you can't find what you're looking for it's always best to mention that you did search that way the responders will at least know you tried.

Secondly, the moderators need to take a more positive role in a thread's content. If it looks like it will become emotionally charged, lock it! I mean by taking a more positive control, the membership will be better policed. I know its not a Nazi state, but this site is really getting out of hand with arguments in new threads. One only needs to look at the past months activity and see how many threads turn into bun fights. Usually its the same people. A trend does develop. I have been on the sister Solstice site and its way more politer. Perhaps its the shape of the car, curvier means less obtuse!
It is always a balance but I have started to crack down on posts that directly go after a specific member. (see below) Arguments can be a good thing and people should be allowed to post opposing viewpoints. Not everyone will agree and everyone has their own way of expressing themselves. This site has gotten a bit out of hand, we are working on bringing it back to becoming a fun and enjoyable site to come to. (again, see below)

At the same time, it is up to the membership to set the example. One bag egg will need 10 or 20 good eggs to counter it's behavior. If you're one of the positive influences on the forum and you leave, you have watered down the positive side of things that balances out the negative. The problem here was even worse as the negative side of things had been allowed to go on for so long unchecked that the entire attitude of the forum...all posters good and bad...became negative and there was no balance, just different shades of negativity. Again, we're trying to change that (see below).

Anyway, this is how I feel lately, I was not sure where to post this so opted for here in site feedback, because that's what it is. I did do a search of the site regarding this issue. One of the only things I found was a post by SKYRoadster in 2005, and it was locked!



Cheers :)
Actually, you may have missed this...

http://www.skyroadster.com/forums/f18/open-discussion-improving-atmosphere-forum-67577/

I just started that post a month ago. It would be great to add this to that.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Thanks for the input Robo, I have seen and read much of the thread you mention, however, my intent was not to post there, I wasn't looking for comment, just for people to read. Your thread has become polluted with the same people pointing fingers, defending actions and asking for proof of actions. A forum is better than that. I am not in the same league as those members nor do I relish the onslaught of their ire either. its just not that fun.

BTW, the stupid comment i made was to even up the score with MM. He posted to a thread of mine here. Not the words stupid but close!
 

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I don't think you get it Mike, by saying something is stupid, is like saying to the OP that he is stupid. That is not what you want to convey, unless it is. You say you don't go on a personal attack, well by stating that a thread is STUPID, then you are doing exactly that. It is this kind of attitude that turns people away (not unlike duck comment). Its not about being less blunt or obtuse, there is nothing added by you by stating that its stupid. I just ask that you not comment. If the member posts and it is stupid, then by no reply by anyone, he'll get the point.

"It is better to keep your mouth closed and let people think you are a fool than to open it and remove all doubt." :cool:
 

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Understood SAR. I've cleaned up a lot of the bs in that other thread but some of those posts do bring up important discussions.

As or calling a thread stupid, I disagree that he is calling the poster stupid. The OP may feel bad because someone thinks the thread is stupid but, if it is a valid post that MM doesn't like, if other posters come in, ignore the "stupid" comment and just go on about being themselves, that also sends the message that the thread is useful. In addition, there is a big difference between calling an act stupid and a person stupid.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
In addition, there is a big difference between calling an act stupid and a person stupid.
That is correct but what I am getting act is the intent. I should have clarified that more. What is the intent then to the comment stupid? Or dumb? Its simply to evoke an emotion from someone by saying it. No comment, no emotion. By saying someone's car is stupid doesn't mean the owner is but it certainly can evoke a negative reaction to the comment. This is center to my comments above. That's all. I am really thinking my time here is numbered. I have added to the site, taken from the site and done so without malice, but there is malice here and it stinks. Rudeness is met with jocularity, covering it up with, oh he/she's been here long or that's the way he/she is, while the new people you want here to contribute shrink away. I don't get it, but hey, be it far from this member to shake the tree anymore. This is Niner Echo out.
 

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Stop the Whining already...lately that's all u hear. Most of us are fed up with the whiners....:nono:
If you wouldn't be an xoxo their wouldn't be a problem.

Maybe if you were sarcastic and the last sentence said "just kidding" there wouldn't be a problem.
 

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That is correct but what I am getting act is the intent. I should have clarified that more. What is the intent then to the comment stupid? Or dumb? Its simply to evoke an emotion from someone by saying it. No comment, no emotion. By saying someone's car is stupid doesn't mean the owner is but it certainly can evoke a negative reaction to the comment. This is center to my comments above. That's all. I am really thinking my time here is numbered. I have added to the site, taken from the site and done so without malice, but there is malice here and it stinks. Rudeness is met with jocularity, covering it up with, oh he/she's been here long or that's the way he/she is, while the new people you want here to contribute shrink away. I don't get it, but hey, be it far from this member to shake the tree anymore. This is Niner Echo out.
The problem with that is the line becomes blurry as to what is acceptable and what isn't. Today it's calling something stupid but what about tomorrow? Instead of "That car is stupid." is stating "That stripe looks UGLY?" then be considered offensive? Or what about "I would never put those wheels on my car!" ALL of those may elect a negative emotion from the poster who's choice is being criticized. Eventually this becomes a place where "if you don't have something nice to say...you get edited or banned."

If those kinds of responses aren't in the same category as "this is stupid", then what makes them different? What definition is applied to one that isn't applied to the others? Before you say "Well, you can tell one is mean and the other is an opinion." I can tell you that those other statements most would consider an "opinion" can get just as mean and sound just as negative as "this is stupid". So there has to be some hard, definable, clearly drawn line to where on one side is acceptable and on the other is not.

Personal attack vs General comment is as clear of a line as I have been able to find so far. Yes, some of what MM says I wish he didn't...I wish he could learn some diplomacy and tact...but he is who he is. And before you say I'm covering his behavior up, let it be known I also wish some members on here had a thicker skin and had the ability to ignore what they don't like to see and promote behavior they would rather see on this forum to make it a better forum. However, they are allowed to be who they are too.

So I have drawn a line where it is easy to differentiate between right and wrong...where no judgment call is necessary...where no gray area exists...or at least is very small...and that is what you see by the no personal attacks rule. However, I am always open to suggestions and am more than happy to talk about them here.
 

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Discussion Starter #13

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I think of Mike as if he is a character in this movie:
Grumpy Old Men (1993) - IMDb

Someone that's been through so much of life's crap that he literally CAN'T bother with niceties and such "crap".

I do kind of wish he would follow the "if you don't have something nice to say..." concept, or at least qualify WHY he thinks something is stupid. In all fairness, he often does explain why he feels something is stupid, so... :thumbs:

People don't excuse his rude or abrupt nature in an effort to cover or to hide anything. It's just an explanation of why his posts are tolerated and other more personalized negative posts aren't.

As far as his impact on the forum? I would wager a pretty healthy amount of $ that Mike has HELPED far more people than he has actually caused to leave. I mean really, there is a filter option... :rolleyes::thumbs:

Sorry if much of this is redundant... I scanned and wanted to add my words to the mix.

Oh...

Yeah...

I almost forgot...

This post is stupid. (It's probably redundant)

This thread is stupid. (It's covered elsewhere)

This forum is stupid. (Dead car line(s) created by a mismanaged company)

Gasoline powered cars are stupid. (Finite resource, excluding corn, horribly inefficient power source, kills the planet, etc...)

The internet is stupid. (Get out there and experience the really REAL world!)

Humans are stupid. (Yeah, just watch the news for 5 min)

Earth is stupid. (I mean come on... Carbon based?!? Lame!)

The universe is stupid. (Seriously, infinity? Why bother?)

:brentil: :eek: :cuss: :nonod: :smash: :angel: :boxing: :patriot: (max smileys, how dumb is that???)
 
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