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Discussion Starter #201
Personally i guess I would do like I do for all my cars with Pressure sensors, go with the OEM recommended so the damn sensor warning of low pressure does not go off early. LOL
Unfortunately sensors for tire pressure were instituted in 2008. I have 2007. No sensor, which was a consideration when I considered Run Flats.
 

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I wonder if the 29 psi refers to the new Firestone indies as well.

The dealer put 36 psi in. I put 30 in all tires.
The load index of the Firestones is close enough to that of the original Goodyears that the same pressure should work for both.
Calculate the recommended pressure by whom? The OEM recommended pressure was for that specific OEM tire design. The tire manufacturer gives a max pressure for the tire. I don't know anyone organization that recommends tire pressures for none OEM tires on different vehicles.

I think this is some cooked up rule of thumb, which your later statement throws out the window with use 31 - 32 all the time.

If you race, you can do a lot of trial and error and figure out what works for you.

For daily driving eh

I mean you can figure out a top end (below tire manuf. Max) by feel at some point that tire is just going to feel hard. Now how low can you go.. Without heat sensors on the tires or hooking up some thermal imaging, not really sure how you know you have gone to soft. I guess some quick lane changes and you might notice a lack of response as you go lower. Personally i guess I would do like I do for all my cars with Pressure sensors, go with the OEM recommended so the damn sensor warning of low pressure does not go off early. LOL
How about recommended by me?

The vehicle recommendation is aimed toward a safe comfortable ride for the tire/vehicle combination, and most of us probably think of it as a minimum reasonable pressure. I know that I do. The TPMS low-pressure warning can be as much as 25% below the recommendation, and at that pressure you are already doing significant damage to the tire, so there shouldn't be much worry about having it go off. There is no high-pressure warning in the TPMS as far as I know.

The principle behind this rule-of-thumb is that the tire's maximum load at maximum pressure gives you a ratio to determine how much pressure you need for a given load. When you change tires you can compare the ratios to determine whether the new tire is different enough from the old tire to require a different pressure range to provide similar performance. Its primary value is when switching to a different width or profile, since the ratios for the same size tires are generally very close. Once you use the ratio comparison to provide a starting point you can adjust pressures to provide the optimum feel. I couldn't find data for the F1 GS-2, but here are ratios for the tires I could find:
RS-A: 1565 lb max @ 44 psig max ratio = 35.56
AS-3+: 1764 lb max @ 50 psig max ratio = 35.28
500 Indy: 1764 lb max @ 50 psig max ratio = 35.28
As you can see, the ratios are within 1%, so worrying about tire pressure changes from tire to tire is pretty pointless. This should be the case for virtually any 245/45-18 tire, or at least it has been for all that I have checked. This is the reason that the same pressures have worked for all of the tires I have used on the Skys. There is a bit more change in ratio when you make a change in width, profile, and/or wheel. I found on the forum that someone was planning a change to 285/35-19 tires:
PSS: 1984 lb max @ 50 psig max ratio = 39.68
For this example there is a 10% change in ratio compared to the OEM tires, so it would make sense to start testing 3 psi below whatever was working for the original size tire. In my case this would provide a starting point of 27 to 28 psig.

Does any of this really matter for street driving? Maybe not, but sometimes in design engineering we run the calculations to assure ourselves that everything is OK the way it is. ParakeetJohn had a valid question because he didn't know. Now maybe he is reassured that what he is doing will work. In any case I would prefer to have some basis for the pressure that I am comfortable with rather that relying on seat-of-the-pants feel.
 

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T
The principle behind this rule-of-thumb is that the tire's maximum load at maximum pressure gives you a ratio to determine how much pressure you need for a given load. When you change tires you can compare the ratios to determine whether the new tire is different enough from the old tire to require a different pressure range to provide similar performance.
Not sure where your getting max load from.

And I don't know enough of tire regulations to know how the max tire pressure of a tire is established so I have no clue if its a good basis for determining ideal tire pressure. Knowing a little bit of how OEM tire pressures are established I doubt max tire pressure has much correlation to it.

Of course then we could start the discussion of when do you measure that pressure since thats the "cold" pressure. From tire rack " Cold conditions are defined as early in the morning before the day's ambient temperature, sun's radiant heat or the heat generated while driving have caused the tire pressure to temporarily increase."

Anyhow,
Here's another approach to determining tire pressure http://www.agcoauto.com/...news/p2_articleid/61

And it brings up another question, how good is your tire pressure gauge. Working in an area that needs accurate tire pressures, we use gauges that cost about $50 and calibrate them to line pressure before using, I would guess most folks gauges are not very accurate or repeatable.

I would say, for most folks, if your buying same size tire, just use the OEM number.

If you want to play around and think you can tell, use the above and start at 90% of the max pressure and go down till your happy.

another good read, and I found this https://www.popularmechanics.com/cars/how-to/a3121/6-common-tire-myths-debunked-10031440/
3. A tire is in danger of bursting if pressure exceeds the "max press" number on the sidewall.

The truth: The "max press" number has nothing to do with a tire's burst pressure. The "max press" and "max load" numbers indicate the pressure at which the tire will carry the maximum amount of weight. A new, quality tire will not pop at an even multiple of the "max press." I'm sworn to secrecy about the exact burst pressure, but I wouldn't hesitate to double the "max press" of any new passenger-vehicle tire on a new wheel. But hitting a big pothole at super-high pressures may cause a failure.
 

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Not sure where your getting max load from.

And I don't know enough of tire regulations to know how the max tire pressure of a tire is established so I have no clue if its a good basis for determining ideal tire pressure. Knowing a little bit of how OEM tire pressures are established I doubt max tire pressure has much correlation to it.

Of course then we could start the discussion of when do you measure that pressure since thats the "cold" pressure. From tire rack " Cold conditions are defined as early in the morning before the day's ambient temperature, sun's radiant heat or the heat generated while driving have caused the tire pressure to temporarily increase."

Anyhow,
Here's another approach to determining tire pressure http://www.agcoauto.com/...news/p2_articleid/61

And it brings up another question, how good is your tire pressure gauge. Working in an area that needs accurate tire pressures, we use gauges that cost about $50 and calibrate them to line pressure before using, I would guess most folks gauges are not very accurate or repeatable.

I would say, for most folks, if your buying same size tire, just use the OEM number.

If you want to play around and think you can tell, use the above and start at 90% of the max pressure and go down till your happy.

another good read, and I found this https://www.popularmechanics.com/cars/how-to/a3121/6-common-tire-myths-debunked-10031440/
3. A tire is in danger of bursting if pressure exceeds the "max press" number on the sidewall.

The truth: The "max press" number has nothing to do with a tire's burst pressure. The "max press" and "max load" numbers indicate the pressure at which the tire will carry the maximum amount of weight. A new, quality tire will not pop at an even multiple of the "max press." I'm sworn to secrecy about the exact burst pressure, but I wouldn't hesitate to double the "max press" of any new passenger-vehicle tire on a new wheel. But hitting a big pothole at super-high pressures may cause a failure.
I took those max load ratings from TireRack, but the data they list is from the tire manufacturer and is embossed on the side of the tire, along with the max psi data.

It doesn't matter how the tire manufacture determines the data, since I trust them to know their tires. I presume that they do testing based on calculated values and real-world failure data, along with extensive testing. You confirmed that the load/pressure data is the load carrying capacity of the tire, so why wouldn't it be usable for determining pressure for a given load?

I have never known anyone, anywhere, to use anything other than cold pressure for street tires. On the track we would use pressure at operating temperature along with tread temperatures across the width of the tire to determine optimum pressure, but would correlate that with air and track surface temperature along with terminal pressure after the tire had cooled to determine a pre-session cold inflation pressure that we would correct (if possible) after a warm-up lap.

My tire gauges are as accurate as they need to be, I think. The ones I keep agree with the TPMS and with each other (I have 5) to within +/- 1 psi.

Most folks may be happy with the OEM recommendation, but that doesn't mean that improvements aren't possible or reasonable.

Since 90% of the maximum for my AS3+ would be 45 psig I think I'll pass on that suggestion. And at the levels we are talking about I most definitely can tell. The last installer that I had do tires in their shop left them at about 40 psig and I forgot to check before I drove home. I had to stop half way there because I thought I was going to skate off of the road.

I am pretty happy with the way that I have arrived at tire pressures so I am going to keep doing it. Mileage is decent and handling is good, with fairly even wear and a tolerable level of ride comfort. Just as I expect you to continue following the OEM recommendations. We only have to be happy with our own vehicle performance.
 

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Never expected you to change the way you set your tire pressure.

Seeing that you race, tire pressure is far more critical to you then the avg driver.

For got the handle of the guy who asked but if you had been following his tire purchasing adventure he is far from racing, and is basically using it as a cruising around car, that and given he used the same tire size I would say stick with OEM pressure.

This all started as he seemed to think there was some science or study or tire company or somebody who had done testing to arrive at your formula, and I was pointing out its not and that you also don't follow it.

I'll stick with my original comment, if your buying replacement tires and are just driving around town, use the OEM recommended pressure. (Which to start another whole debate- and discussed in the link above, really should not be what you set your tire pressures to unless you check them every month)

What I do is set it 3 - 5 PSI higher then recommended as your tire will lose about 1 psi per month. Personally In the spring I set them at about or a couple psi high, then as summer comes and it heats up that helps counteract the losses, which generally gets me to the fall. Then depending on the temp in the fall I'll set them 4 -5 psi high, and as it gets colder they come down such that by dec ish I am back having to set them again I'll go about 2 or 3 high, (depending on temp. that day) then go to spring. Of course this is all because of tpms. providing me a display of the pressure. Before my cars had TPMS I would check them probably once a year or the tire shops would when rotated and I was fine (Ignorance is truly bliss). But I don't race and only push my cars to where the tires break free occasionally and then I don't really care what my speed is as I am most likely on a clover leaf getting onto or off the expressway.


but as stated in said article you really don't want to be running much below OEM recommended (its really not good on tire wire) and even OEM level is set with a different priority then most owners would have (OEM's really don't care about tire life) (Well until AV's come out and they own the car and have to do the maintenance, oh how the conversation changes when they start looking at tire replacement costs, suddenly a few more psi and a bit harder rider is not that big of a deal --- theoretically speaking that is)

But again if your running on the track you don't much care about wear either.

John, on your comment about cold tires. You did read the definition of cold tire measurement, Early morning, before the sun heats the tire. You really think most folks are measuring tire pressures when they get up? I bet most probably drive to the nearest Belle Tire and use there free system, guess what thats not a cold tire, set that at OEM recommended and your cold pressure will be anywhere form 2 - 5 psi lower, and thats really not good.

I use the Belle tire setup near me (well a specific one as others are crap- but this one seems to value it and keeps it working and in good shape) Anyhow its amazing to see people fill there tires at a 32 psi which means there getting a cold rating of 30 - 28 (not sure many OEM's have that low a recommended level)

Anyhow, I have learned a lot through this exercise, and am not as "scared" of max tire pressure, since it appears to be several levels below a burst pressure and really is not Max at all expect to get max load out of the tire, but few people use a tire that there vehicle weight takes anywhere near max.
 

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Never expected you to change the way you set your tire pressure.

Seeing that you race, tire pressure is far more critical to you then the avg driver.
Average driver or average Kappa driver? We certainly have the range from cruiser to competitor, but I think we (especially on the forum) tend toward the upper side of mid-range.
For got the handle of the guy who asked but if you had been following his tire purchasing adventure he is far from racing, and is basically using it as a cruising around car, that and given he used the same tire size I would say stick with OEM pressure.

This all started as he seemed to think there was some science or study or tire company or somebody who had done testing to arrive at your formula, and I was pointing out its not and that you also don't follow it.
ParakeetJohn. And I mentiond the formula because he was concerned about whether the new tires had different requirements than the original and I was trying to give him more than my unsupported opinion about why he was OK. And I do follow it. I follow it to the point that I know that the starting point for reasonable pressures and from there I adjust based on feel, but never straying far from the target. I also use the formula to make sure that I am not going below the OM recommendation as it translates to the new tire. For example, if I was going to run significantly narrower winter tires I would want to do the conversion as those narrower tires would need a higher pressure, just as the wider ones in my previous example would likely need a lower pressure.
I'll stick with my original comment, if your buying replacement tires and are just driving around town, use the OEM recommended pressure. (Which to start another whole debate- and discussed in the link above, really should not be what you set your tire pressures to unless you check them every month)

What I do is set it 3 - 5 PSI higher then recommended as your tire will lose about 1 psi per month. Personally In the spring I set them at about or a couple psi high, then as summer comes and it heats up that helps counteract the losses, which generally gets me to the fall. Then depending on the temp in the fall I'll set them 4 -5 psi high, and as it gets colder they come down such that by dec ish I am back having to set them again I'll go about 2 or 3 high, (depending on temp. that day) then go to spring. Of course this is all because of tpms. providing me a display of the pressure. Before my cars had TPMS I would check them probably once a year or the tire shops would when rotated and I was fine (Ignorance is truly bliss). But I don't race and only push my cars to where the tires break free occasionally and then I don't really care what my speed is as I am most likely on a clover leaf getting onto or off the expressway.

but as stated in said article you really don't want to be running much below OEM recommended (its really not good on tire wire) and even OEM level is set with a different priority then most owners would have (OEM's really don't care about tire life) (Well until AV's come out and they own the car and have to do the maintenance, oh how the conversation changes when they start looking at tire replacement costs, suddenly a few more psi and a bit harder rider is not that big of a deal --- theoretically speaking that is)

But again if your running on the track you don't much care about wear either.
Optimizing tire pressure isn't just about performance driving, it is also about comfort and stability. Sometimes you sacrifice one for another, but there is always a goal to maximize them all. The handling characteristics of the wide low-profile tires that we use can be very pressure sensitive, even at boulevard cruising speeds, and some, like the AS3+, are also very sensitive to road surface. Mine will tramline (follow grooves) aggressively at 29 psi, and If I was committed to running OEM pressure I would have scrapped them long ago. As it is, on my car, they are very docile at 31+ psi, so we get along well. Skersfan hates them at any pressure, so it is either an alignment variation between our cars or a tolerance variance between our drivers.

I check tire pressures whenever the average ambient temperature changes 10 degrees. Tires will change pressure by roughly 1 psi for every 10 degrees of temperature change, either up or down and I like to compensate for that. I also check them before a run or an out-of-town trip, because that's what my father taught me to do, and it stuck. I check the RL at least every week because one of its tires leaks down faster than normal, but the NA never loses anything and only fluctuates with temperature.

Racers do care about wear in the sense that the same things that accelerate wear also contribute to loss of grip. An over inflated tire will carry too much load in the center which causes center wear on the street and loss of contact patch on the track. An under inflated tire will carry too much load on the shoulders which causes edge wear on the street and contact patch twist on the track.
John, on your comment about cold tires. You did read the definition of cold tire measurement, Early morning, before the sun heats the tire. You really think most folks are measuring tire pressures when they get up? I bet most probably drive to the nearest Belle Tire and use there free system, guess what thats not a cold tire, set that at OEM recommended and your cold pressure will be anywhere form 2 - 5 psi lower, and thats really not good.

I use the Belle tire setup near me (well a specific one as others are crap- but this one seems to value it and keeps it working and in good shape) Anyhow its amazing to see people fill there tires at a 32 psi which means there getting a cold rating of 30 - 28 (not sure many OEM's have that low a recommended level)

Anyhow, I have learned a lot through this exercise, and am not as "scared" of max tire pressure, since it appears to be several levels below a burst pressure and really is not Max at all expect to get max load out of the tire, but few people use a tire that there vehicle weight takes anywhere near max.
You should do some experimentation by watching your TPMS display, and you may find less variation in your drive to the tire shop than you expect. Short drives at moderate speeds will not significantly affect tire pressures because the tire doesn't gain that much heat. You also have to take into account where the car is parked, and what affect that has. I garage my Skys, and the garage temperature can be significantly different than outdoor ambient. What do you think the effect of driving out of a 50 degree garage into a 20 degree overcast day? What about a 100 degree garage into an 80 degree day? In those cases, the drive to the tire shop is actually beneficial, as it allows the tires to acclimate to the driving conditions.

For me, good handling happens at pressures so far below maximum that it isn't really a concern for the cars, but I do use it for the truck (sometimes) and the trailer (most of the time). I am glad that this discussion was ultimately of benefit to you, even if in a direction that wasn't quite expected.
 

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You should do some experimentation by watching your TPMS display, and you may find less variation in your drive to the tire shop than you expect. Short drives at moderate speeds will not significantly affect tire pressures because the tire doesn't gain that much heat. You also have to take into account where the car is parked, and what affect that has. I garage my Skys, and the garage temperature can be significantly different than outdoor ambient. What do you think the effect of driving out of a 50 degree garage into a 20 degree overcast day? What about a 100 degree garage into an 80 degree day? In those cases, the drive to the tire shop is actually beneficial, as it allows the tires to acclimate to the driving conditions.
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On my DD i drive with the tire pressures displayed on my dash. Car is parked outside. I have a pretty good idea how the tires respond, to ambient temperature day to day. Morning as sunrise when I leave for work vs 5 pm after it sitting in the sun all day. Yes pV=RT is pretty simple to calculate for ambient temps and the 1 psi for 10 deg is pretty good.

As stated above the cold condition for measuring the tire psi is considered the morning temp. So in Mich that could be a nice 55 deg morning, and I could leave work 85, now if I fill my temps in the parking lot at the end of the day I would then be driving with tires 3 psi below. Worst lets assume I drive home and stop and now lets assume the place is close to work and has only gone up 1 psi, but if I drive the expressway and stop I can put another 3 -4 psi on the tire, If I then set the tire to OEM spec the next morning I could be 6 -7 psi low.

My point here is most people have no clue what there tires are or what they are suppose to be, and unfortunately I think this whole tire education, TPMS / tire life crap that has been created from the Ford/Firestone fiasco has actually made the situation worse, as I believe more folks are running around with underinflated tires then before, simply cause they don't understand what and when your tire pressure should be OEM and setting your tire there pretty much means you need to inflate them every month, as your tire will lose 1 psi a month, and ... oh balls this is just getting silly.

anyhow.. Tell everyone to use your equation, its a silly equation, but what ever, the whole thing is pretty silly.

This tire pressure discussion has gotten more twisted then back on the corvair forums. Now tire pressure conversations there were great. The corvair had 15 front 26 rear psi as OEM of course that was the pre radial tires, so all though there still needed to be a different there really was not data on what it should be.. OH the discussions, especially when half way through someone would mention oh no I bought vintage non-radial tires.. Or you had the autocrossers who ran different pressure when racing vs just driving.. Anyhow.

Have a great weekend.
 

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On my DD i drive with the tire pressures displayed on my dash. Car is parked outside. I have a pretty good idea how the tires respond, to ambient temperature day to day. Morning as sunrise when I leave for work vs 5 pm after it sitting in the sun all day. Yes pV=RT is pretty simple to calculate for ambient temps and the 1 psi for 10 deg is pretty good.

As stated above the cold condition for measuring the tire psi is considered the morning temp. So in Mich that could be a nice 55 deg morning, and I could leave work 85, now if I fill my temps in the parking lot at the end of the day I would then be driving with tires 3 psi below. Worst lets assume I drive home and stop and now lets assume the place is close to work and has only gone up 1 psi, but if I drive the expressway and stop I can put another 3 -4 psi on the tire, If I then set the tire to OEM spec the next morning I could be 6 -7 psi low.

My point here is most people have no clue what there tires are or what they are suppose to be, and unfortunately I think this whole tire education, TPMS / tire life crap that has been created from the Ford/Firestone fiasco has actually made the situation worse, as I believe more folks are running around with underinflated tires then before, simply cause they don't understand what and when your tire pressure should be OEM and setting your tire there pretty much means you need to inflate them every month, as your tire will lose 1 psi a month, and ... oh balls this is just getting silly.

anyhow.. Tell everyone to use your equation, its a silly equation, but what ever, the whole thing is pretty silly.

This tire pressure discussion has gotten more twisted then back on the corvair forums. Now tire pressure conversations there were great. The corvair had 15 front 26 rear psi as OEM of course that was the pre radial tires, so all though there still needed to be a different there really was not data on what it should be.. OH the discussions, especially when half way through someone would mention oh no I bought vintage non-radial tires.. Or you had the autocrossers who ran different pressure when racing vs just driving.. Anyhow.

Have a great weekend.
Interesting opinions.

It is possible to do it incorrectly, so don't advocate doing it correctly.

People don't know, so don't try to either educate or protect them,

The equation probably is silly, but it has application. And it's not "mine", I'm just using it.

Corvair ... what? I also used different pressures to autocross than to drive, but don't autocross anymore so that is moot.

Thank you, I will try for a great weekend, but I'm working for the next six days as we finish and restart the plant after our December shut down.
 

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Discussion Starter #209
Maybe not, but sometimes in design engineering we run the calculations to assure ourselves that everything is OK the way it is. ParakeetJohn had a valid question because he didn't know. Now maybe he is reassured that what he is doing will work. In any case I would prefer to have some basis for the pressure that I am comfortable with rather that relying on seat-of-the-pants feel.
I called Tire Rack to affirm like pressure variance the day I had them put on while at the air pump... "sitting"... in the car. Guess that's still seat-of-my-pants... literally.

Your logic is undeniable. (I ROBOT: Movie.)

I too like a bit of empirical data to back up choices. Your time spent in this reassurance is much appreciated. Thank you.
 

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Discussion Starter #210
Now tire pressure conversations there were great. The corvair had 15 front 26 rear psi as OEM of course that was the pre radial tires,
Corvair... my first car. Loved that bench seat and dash shifter. Called it the Red Bomb. Put glass packs on it for that truly obnoxious race car sound... 0 to 60 in 2 days flat. Lol.

Odd you mentioned the tire pressure... I never knew it was different for the rear engine drive. Ran all 4 tires at 32. Lol.

Ralph Nader did that car in but good... something about exploding fuel tanks if I remember. Humm... my car ended up aptly named.
 

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I too like a bit of empirical data to back up choices. Your time spent in this reassurance is much appreciated. Thank you.
Glad it helped. Tires are clearly not an exact science, but I also like having a direction for my approximations and other guesswork.

Corvair... my first car. Loved that bench seat and dash shifter. Called it the Red Bomb. Put glass packs on it for that truly obnoxious race car sound... 0 to 60 in 2 days flat. Lol.

Odd you mentioned the tire pressure... I never knew it was different for the rear engine drive. Ran all 4 tires at 32. Lol.

Ralph Nader did that car in but good... something about exploding fuel tanks if I remember. Humm... my car ended up aptly named.
I think that the problem with the Corvair was stability, as the heavy rear engine made it really easy to spin. Nader's book, if I recall, was titled "Unsafe at Any Speed".
The car that had the exploding fuel tank was the Ford Pinto if it was involved in a rear-end collision.

A friend of mine built what was called a Corv-eight by putting a small block in the back seat of a Corvair along with a ZF transaxle. Wicked fast and very driveable.
The engine cover was made from old suitcase bolted together and hollowed-out, so it looked like the back seat was full of luggage. It was a total sleeper.
 

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Glad it helped. Tires are clearly not an exact science, but I also like having a direction for my approximations and other guesswork.


I think that the problem with the Corvair was stability, as the heavy rear engine made it really easy to spin. Nader's book, if I recall, was titled "Unsafe at Any Speed".
The car that had the exploding fuel tank was the Ford Pinto if it was involved in a rear-end collision.

A friend of mine built what was called a Corv-eight by putting a small block in the back seat of a Corvair along with a ZF transaxle. Wicked fast and very driveable.
The engine cover was made from old suitcase bolted together and hollowed-out, so it looked like the back seat was full of luggage. It was a total sleeper.
There was no problem with the Corvair. It still to this day remains the only car the Federal government called safe.

The illusion of a problem came from 2 factors it had oversteer, so if you didn't know how to drive you could get in trouble (there were other cars of that vintage that had the same arrangement) the rear swing arms allowed the wheels to LOOK very tucked under when they got unloaded massively, but it was not an issue.

Nadars book was actually responsible for GM building the car for 2 more years. The Pony cars and America's desire to go bat crazy fast straight instead of a bit slower but holding corner's killed the corvair.

If you want to know more, here is THE corvair forum. Corvair Center :: Corvair Center Forum
 

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Discussion Starter #213
I think that the problem with the Corvair was stability, as the heavy rear engine made it really easy to spin.
Odd you mentioned that. My mom did spin out on the freeway with me and my little brother in the car. I think the brakes locked up.

I started rebuilding 68 Firebirds in my teens, but still drove the Corvair as it was more fun though not fast.
 

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Odd you mentioned that. My mom did spin out on the freeway with me and my little brother in the car. I think the brakes locked up.

I started rebuilding 68 Firebirds in my teens, but still drove the Corvair as it was more fun though not fast.

More than likely had the rear tires all inflated to the same level. If you did that the car was very squirrely. Again, properly inflated the car was one of the best probably the best handling American car. The Porsche was probably a better handling car at that time.

But when folks went into to corners to hard or tried to turn to fast, the oversteer would kick that rear end out, instead of the typical breaking free of the front end... Basically it handles like the Corvette of today.
 

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I just spent the last 20 mins of my life (time that i will never get back) in reading this entire thread. I wonder if Parakeet John ever actually bought a set of tires .... or is still trying to make a decision. :willy:
 
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