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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Jrarant gave a detailed account of the hydroplaning issues which appear in the end to have totaled the car. As summer ends there will be increasingly poor road conditions across the country and I am interested in a thread that begins to address the mitigation of some of these upcoming seasonal threats to driving.
1. What are the top 3 all weather tires considered to be for the Sky?
2. How do Cold Air Intakes take the highway rain and water mist created by heavy trucks and traffic?
3. Knowing that some folks are going to drive in the snow, what are the options available (snow tires/chains/cables) and who makes them.
4. What are the top 3 replacement windshield wipers for the Sky?

I have a suspicion these issues may have been addresed in th Solstice forum and if anyone knows of a thread there that has an answer it would be appreciated.

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1) Tires - call Tire Rack. These guys DO know what they are talking about.

2) Windshield wipers - try different brands until you settle on what you like. They are not too expensive to experiment with.

3) CAI should not be an issue, but if in doubt, just put the original stuff back on for the winter.

4) Don't do chains, they will tear stuff up. And in some states they are now illegal. Or maybe that's studded tires.

But there is some else to worry about. As low as these cars are, there may very well be a problem with high centering! That's fun.
 

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studded tires

Many states have made the studded tires illegal. The resaon, they tear up the roads, causing $$$ in highway repairs.
 

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I agree, Tire Rack would be an excellent source of information on which tire to use in the winter. But how much snow you get is the question. An all season tire for many is perfect because they get more slush than snow. But those of us who actually get snow, the low ground clearance is a major problem. This is not a Jeep or SUV where you sit high up off the ground. If possible do not drive with six inches or more on the ground. Large ice chuncks from trucks or plows can damage your under carriage. And compressed snow will actually lift your car right up in the air and your wheels will just spin since your will no longer be touching the ground.
Normally after the plows go through the roads are snowy but just fine to drive on .. even with just all season tires. For those surprise storms, rarely a surprise with todays reporting, arrange to drive another car, ride with someone, take a cab, grab a room near work or something. At the very least try to follow a plow ... and have snow tires on if this is your only car and must drive.
Most states have out lawed or limited the use of chains and studs. Besides that they are hard on your cars.
Winter driving is no big deal if you prepare your car (antifreeze, thinner motor oil and tires) and yourself mentally. Slow down and try to keep a safe distance from the guy in front. I am not saying fifteen cars lengths like some aholes's ... but more than normal. I am sixty and drive in hilly upstate New York and have never (knock on wood) had a winter accident. :thumbs: :D
 

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Here's the basics on tires:

all tires are a balance of dry grip, wet grip, and snow grip.

Grip can also refer to "traction", tho these are related.


You can think of levels of traction/grip as

Outstanding
Great
Very good
Good
Average
Poor
No or None


It is impossible to have a tire that is outstanding dry, outstanding wet, and outstanding snow. You usually have to give up the other two to get outstanding in any category.

Example: the Hoosier A6 is "oustanding" in dry grip. It has no real wet grip and no snow grip.

An all season tire is usually great in one category, and average-good in the other two. Take your pick - some tires emphasize snow (Very Good) but are Average dry and wet. Some emphasize wet and snow (good to very good) but then give up dry (average).

After driving the RS-A on the Solstice and SKY, I would call it "Very Good to Great" dry (0.90 g on a skidpad and better than a Miata on a road course is pretty darned good for an all season).

I would also classify the Corvette's Goodyear Eagle F1 GS-2 as "Very Good to Great" dry. but the F1 Supercar tire is Outstanding in the dry (the tire on the Z06). However, the Supercar has NO snow traction, where the GS-2 is Poor to Average. The GS-2 is actually "good" in the wet.

But going back to the RS-A on the SKY/Solstice - I as very shocked at the amount of snow traction, especially for a sports car. In fact, I would classify it as "good". So, very good in dry, good snow - it had to come from somewhere. I would call the tire "average" for wet. Believe me, I have driven MUCH worse.

Many of the summer-only tires out there (like the Goodyear GS-D3 or the Michelin PS-2) are Great in the dry, Very good in the wet, but NO snow.


A true snow tire will be Great to outstanding in the snow, but tend toward average to good in the wet (because of the compound and rubber design) but Poor dry performance.

so, when you think about tires, think about the tradeoffs that go into them. In Europe, they really don't believe in "all season" tires. They have true performance tires, and they have winter tires, and they aren't afraid of switching tires OR parking their performance car in the winter. It's a difference of philosophy.

You could prolly get a better wet tire, but you will give up something to get it - my guess would be dry grip (maybe only 0.85 or 0.82 g on the skidpad), and possibly snow too.


HTH.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
That was a great post! Nice feedback, thanks!:thumbs:
 

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Snow....

What's snow? We had about an inch in 1983 and it closed the roads, schools and offices down for days......ya'll drive in that??? :jester: :jester: :jester:

Still waiting :banghead: for my Silver Pearl for our snowless Alabama roads
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Kappaman and other members sure knows more than most about cars and tires. I am probably a pretty average, buy - turn key - drive. I do not really understand much, or care, how things work ... but they work. It could be a computer, space ship or car .. I just want it to operate the way I understand it will or better. I must say I have enjoyed reading this and other forums and actually learning facts I otherwise would be missing. Options, cost, dependability and need are factors that I apply to purchasing most items.

But some of you members are so bright the rest of us cannot help but pick up information and learn ... thanks! :thumbs:
 

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Key thing to do in bad weather - Slow Down.
Second, watch for other idiots that don't slow down.
Light weight cars will hydroplane easily. I did two separate 360 degree spinouts in my MR2 on roads that had just gotten rain after a long hot spell - slick with oil film I guess. Luckily I did not hit anything.
 

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Macpar4 said:
What's snow? We had about an inch in 1983 and it closed the roads, schools and offices down for days......ya'll drive in that??? :jester: :jester: :jester:

:agree: We don't get much snow here in Tennessee either ---- but look out for ice storms !!!!!! :crazy: Crazy drivers.
 

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TX-Sky said:
Key thing to do in bad weather - Slow Down.
Second, watch for other idiots that don't slow down.
Light weight cars will hydroplane easily. I did two separate 360 degree spinouts in my MR2 on roads that had just gotten rain after a long hot spell - slick with oil film I guess. Luckily I did not hit anything.
Wanna try hydroplaning?

Try missing an armadillo in mild rain in an S2000... Be prepared to be facing the direction you came - for a small amount of time - until the car pirouettes around again. Do not try this on a curve. The CG continues straight, while you spin like a top. You will be wishing you had an '06 (standard stability control) rather than a 2003 S2000 :lol:
 

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KappaMan said:
.....
In Europe, they really don't believe in "all season" tires. They have true performance tires, and they have winter tires, and they aren't afraid of switching tires OR parking their performance car in the winter. It's a difference of philosophy.....
HTH.
KappaMan,

that's not the whole truth. In Germany/Europe we have AllWeatherTyres and a lot of people use them, but more in the lower power range on small cars less then 100 hp. There is a limited offering only, for example Goodyear Vector and Dunlop SP4 AllSeasons.
On higher performance cars we normally use two sets: one summer performance tyre and one winter performance tyre (up to 150 mls/h, V rated if you want).

From tyre test that I know an AllSeason is allways a compromise: not as good in dry and wet as a good summer tyre and not as good in snow, ice and wet as a good winter tyre. One reason is the rubber mixing, with two different rubbers you can make a softer winter mixing and a harder summer mixing.

There is no con in using winter tyres besides of the second set of rims, because it makes no difference in tyre costs if your'e rubbing down the one set in summer and the other set in winter.

BTW starting with this coming winter the use of AllSeason in Germany will increase because is necessary by law that we have to use winter "adequate" tyres. A good bunch of that people that havn't used winter tyres up to now will take AllSeason starting in October or November.

Maybe there is a different philosophy in USA and Europe but my opinoin is to use winter tyres.
The smaller the better, examples for the Opel GT:

225/55x17
205/60x17
195/70x16
 

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C20LET_50 said:
KappaMan,

that's not the whole truth. In Germany/Europe we have AllWeatherTyres and a lot of people use them, but more in the lower power range on small cars less then 100 hp. There is a limited offering only, for example Goodyear Vector and Dunlop SP4 AllSeasons.
On higher performance cars we normally use two sets: one summer performance tyre and one winter performance tyre (up to 150 mls/h, V rated if you want).

From tyre test that I know an AllSeason is allways a compromise: not as good in dry and wet as a good summer tyre and not as good in snow, ice and wet as a good winter tyre. One reason is the rubber mixing, with two different rubbers you can make a softer winter mixing and a harder summer mixing.

There is no con in using winter tyres besides of the second set of rims, because it makes no difference in tyre costs if your'e rubbing down the one set in summer and the other set in winter.

BTW starting with this coming winter the use of AllSeason in Germany will increase because is necessary by law that we have to use winter "adequate" tyres. A good bunch of that people that havn't used winter tyres up to now will take AllSeason starting in October or November.

Maybe there is a different philosophy in USA and Europe but my opinoin is to use winter tyres.
The smaller the better, examples for the Opel GT:

225/55x17
205/60x17
195/70x16
Thanks. Most of the US doesn't use winter tires. I know that is true in Michigan - VERY FEW.

We all know about the "beater car" though - it's the car you drive in the winter when your decent summer car is in the garage or under a tarp.

However, those of us that do drive in all four seasons (and there are quite a few) DO appreciate having snow capability for those times when you need to get home in an inch or two of snow.
 

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Mine will never see snow or any foul weather, I plan on parking it for the winter of raniny season here in No Cal....Where it will a merge next spring...
 

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Hyrdoplaning

I thought hydroplaning was a function of tire pressure and speed.
I doubt the inflation pressure of the tire would have a significant impact - unless it affects the contact area of the tire - or changes the profile.

The tread design (and depth) - plus speed - plus depth of water should be the major factors - plus the weight of the car and the width of the tire itself. A heavier car with a narrower tire will do better than a lighter car with a wider tire.

according to: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydroplaning_(road_vehicle)
Two- or three-wheeled vehicles with round-profile tires, such as bicycles and motorcycles, virtually never suffer from hydroplaning in normal road use. The contact area with the road is a canoe-shaped patch which effectively squeezes water out of the way. Speeds of 200 mph or more are necessary to achieve hydroplaning on narrow round-profile tires.
TireRack.com also has a page on this topic: http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tiretech/techpage.jsp?techid=16

Hydroplaning happens when one or more tires is lifted from the road by a wedge of water that gets trapped in front of and under a tire as the vehicle drives through water. Hydroplaning most frequently occurs during heavy rainstorms when water creates puddles on the highway or expressway. In addition to the accompanying splash and scaring the heck out of the driver, hydroplaning typically causes the steering wheel to jerk and the vehicle to abruptly pull towards the puddle.

The speed at which a tire hydroplanes is a function of water depth, vehicle speed, vehicle weight, tire width, tread depth and tread design. It depends on how much water has to be removed, how much weight is pressing down on the tires and how efficient the tread design is at evacuating water. While deeper water, higher speeds, lighter vehicles, wider tires, less tread depth and less efficient tread designs will cause tires to hydroplane at lower speeds; all tires will be forced to hydroplane at some speed.

As a rule, tread design affects hydroplaning resistance at high speeds and in deep water. Tread compound affects wet traction at lower speeds or in shallow water.

Directional tread designs (sometimes called Unidirectional tread designs) are frequently used on tires intended to better resist hydroplaning. Their multiple tread grooves are aligned in a repeating "V" shape to increase the tire’s ability to channel water from between the tire’s footprint and the road. Somewhat like the vanes of a water pump continually pushing water in one direction through the engine, the grooves of a directional tire are designed to push water in one direction through the tire (forward on an angle to the sides). Directional tread designs are especially helpful in increasing hydroplaning resistance when relatively wide Plus Two, Plus Three or Plus Four tire and wheel applications result in fitting a much wider tire to a vehicle than its Original Equipment size.
 

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On aircraft tires you square the tire pressure and thats the speed at which you can expect to hydroplane with a certain amount of water on the surface. Operationally for cars...slow down.
 
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